Art Rock Circus

"The Thunder in the Rain "

Interview with John Miner

By Sergio Vilar

Hello John. Take us back in history and give us a brief history of the band. How did you get Art Rock Circus together?
Hi Sergio, glad we could finally get together here...
I just got back from Maui last night and it was an amazing time. My mind is free and clear and ready for all your questions!

OK... the band… Art Rock Circus let me go back just a bit further...
I was playing in a band Mantra Sunrise out in California and things were going well for us... a very artsy progressive band probably near the low point in prog rock around 1992-94. Surprising to us, we were getting major label interest at a time when really no bands in this genre were getting signed. We were young and excited, and hoping to be on the verge of this huge prog revival! lol! It was a time when bands still sold "tapes" remember those? CD's were around but tapes were what unsigned bands had and we were moving a lot of those and doing lots of gigs. We had finished most of our "self titled" record and everything looked really positive. Then came all that band problems... Wayne Garabedian, our drummer quit, and that stung bad. Then Joel Bissing, our front man and bassist, who is a really talented guy, felt the blow and thought we should take a break and he took a scholarship to the Seattle Art Institute for study and it all just kinda ended. There were drug and alcohol issues I think too... we were just really young and inexperienced... but very passionate and at times extremely motivated. We did finish the record with another drummer, basically sitting in for session work, and Joel and I did get the album done. Since at that point we were not touring, I hoped we would get back together when Joel finished study, but then I moved to Las Vegas to perform my rock opera “Heavens Café” which I had been working on the side... at that point I felt better being in the drivers chair, rather than being a member of a band that was totally dependent upon the whims of other people. So between Mantra Sunrise and “Heavens Café” is where Art Rock Circus started. I was working with some other guys, demoing stuff for “Heavens Café” and stocking things away that did not fit into that context. A few small performances here and there and Art Rock Circus was born. This time with me being the ring leader like a true circus with performers coming and going all the time. Unless you are making a lot of money it is hard to keep a band together for long periods.
I have never been in this for the money at all... artistic reasons only.
By being in control I can more or less insure the projects survival over time. If someone quits or are let go... then someone else joins the circus in a natural way... nothing forced or contrived. It has really worked out well and I am very happy with that decision.

The name Art Rock Circus is very interesting, what does it mean to you?
These days you open the paper and there are so many bands, and you see all these interesting names... but really have no idea what kind of music they are playing... so we felt that it would be a good idea to have a name that in some way described what we are up to... so if you see us listed in the local art rag or street paper "Art Rock Circus" might be something you would go to see on a whim because you might like art, or artsy stuff or "art rock" and the word "circus" I think describes something maybe fun, different, and maybe unusual. I think the circus in a general sense, is usually not in town all that long, and represents a special event to go and see. Therefore "Art Rock Circus" doesn't sound like a country band, punk band or metal band like the Ho-down Boys or the Skull Slashers!

What's your inspiration in making progressive music and who were your influences?
Well, I see music as pure art and to me good art is always out on the edge of possibilities, and it's intent should be to cut new ground and bring something to the culture that is fresh and exciting. That is my inspiration. Whether or not I am successful at that is another topic!

My influences are of course broad because bands I like are influenced by others and so on and so on.. and just the fact I have a guitar in my arms is showing influence from the early crafters like Les Paul etc... As a guitarist I am influenced by many and as a producer different people in that area. I play drums as well... mainly for compositional reasons so I obviously like the guys who play in odd meters and such. If I started naming names I would be here all day really... but all the greats from the 70's for sure...
Once I got over individuals... like great guitar soloist etc... I quickly gravitated towards groups where everyone was more or less an equal. I think the drummer in a band should carry just as much weight and importance as the singer if not more really.
I liked the bands where each member was clearly going after a more or less original sound. I am certainly into groups that interest me sonically more than just chops, and I do find jazz to be often too self indulgent for my tastes... but then again if it's say Miles Davis, I am much more inclined to stick around for a listen! lol Rock is typically too boring for me from a rhythmic standpoint.
Folk music often doesn't have enough virtuosity from "all" the musicians nor does country, and classical lacks the energy that is available with amplified instruments like screaming guitars and monster drumming! So really I like bits and pieces of all those things and I think progressive rock is a good place for it all to come together.

I think from a structural standpoint I feel very classical... at times we improvise things and jazz will creep in there, and the energy of rock is always seductive. I think you'll here Indian music... and I think in a way African music, not as much in instrumentation but in the use of odd meters and poly rhythmic ideas we'll try. It's hard to be original today, but we do try to find our own way as much as we can or are comfortable with. I know so many bands these day just flat out try to sound like someone else... even in prog... and I don't think that is doing anyone any good.

Can you tell us what ideas you originally had as far as your musical taste were concerned?
My musical tastes have changed so much and continue to all the time... So I think now I realize that will continue and I am open to seeing where things go. Originally I wanted a jazz drummer who hit the drums hard like a rock drummer and I found that in Jon Weisberg, Devon Lebsack, and more recently Nolan Stolz. I wanted bass to be locked with the drummers foot most of the time but also bridging the melodic lines of the guitar or keys. It's a huge challenge for the bassist in this band and the drummer as well. My guitar approach has been one of alternative tunings, shrouded in lot of odd metering... mainly because I see that as an area that is still fresh and open to exploring. Some people do it , but if you look at the big picture, hardly anyone is doing it. so artistically I like being there.

“Tell A Vision”, your new album, impressed me totally by its unique style in art and complexity in sound structures. Tell us, how long did the work on that whole album take?
Just over three years… and that was working on it constantly really... We took a lot of time working on the sound developments. Trying different approaches all the time and often unsuccessfully. I would spend all afternoon just tweaking knobs to get a sound for a 15 second guitar track and then half the next day trying to figure out how to transfer that best to tape with any number of mic combinations or placements, eq and all. I do really enjoy all that, but sometimes it's just not happening and your pulling your hair out. Eventually you get it somehow.

How would you describe your new music now?
Nolan was huge in making this record happen... because he is a wonderful drummer and has a strong sense of keyboard understanding. He did much to color the album in those areas. Milo came in later, he is a very experienced prog player and brought in all kinds of ideas that we liked. I think of “Desert Song” for instance.. what Milo did there just made that piece perfect. We are much more keyboard oriented than before. “Heavens Café”, is just drums, bass and guitar for the most part with violin here and there. Passage to Clear had some keys but no soloing really... mostly textures. With “Tell a Vision” keys are everywhere... it was just a natural progression from our past. I really wanted to explore the simpleness of a three piece band and now with all the keys it just makes the whole stew more dynamic in many ways. It's really exciting... and I am much more comfortable mixing keys and understanding their sonic position than in the past.

What are some of the inspirations behind your music?
I look at each song as an art piece with a unique and individual expression. So each song would have it's own beginnings.
For instance, the title track “Tell a Vision” is a very complex concept about our natural attraction to media addiction and it takes 20 minutes to get across all the feelings and emotions and story etc... while say... “Oregon Trail Song” was inspired by a mood I felt while playing guitar camping on the beach in, well, Oregon!... very simple… I thought about the Spanish explorers of centuries ago, coming into the Northwest Americas and how they might have felt. I think most of that is covered on the tributary site at http://tributarymusic.com/tv_studio.htm

How does the writing and recording process work with the band?  Who does the main music and lyric writing?
On “Heavens Café” I did all the music and lyric writing. On “Tell a Vision” again all the lyrics but things opened up a bit, and with all the talented people coming forward to contribute, we felt more like a band, so there are other writing credits. For the most part, I would bring a piece to the table and Nolan might suggest something to do... or maybe rearrange a part or suggest a type of solo here or there... I feel I am certainly generous with writing credits, and if I feel someone is really bringing something of significance to the piece, then it becomes partly theirs. There is no need to argue about trivial stuff like credits... I have seen bands break up over stuff like that... that's crazy. So basically here on this record, you could say I wrote the basic songs and then everyone would do their thing, so we would just go from there. Milo did contribute a solo track, so that of course was his and we were all happy to have him contribute to the album in that way... it is very special. Now in the future I would imagine that Nolan will play a much bigger part in the picture because he is getting his masters university degree in composition... so obviously he will be having a significant
impact on future recordings... and he is really developing as an artist quickly. He is much more classically trained that I am and in jazz as well... there is no reason that his training should not be exploited! lol... I tend to feel things... or come from a more conceptual or intuitive place and he can help me understand the actual underlaying form of what I am doing from a more traditional approach or academic. We don't seem to clash egos or anything and we respect one another very much.

The reviews for “Tell A Vision” have all been very positive. Do you think that the word is finally getting out about your music?
Yes, there have been many kind reviews and that is all great, it's a natural part of releasing a recording, but I don't find bad reviews to necessarily always be a negative thing either.
A good reviewer is one who gives the reader an idea as to what the artist is up to... and I think it is important for the reviewer to try to clarify the objective of the artist. Then from there, to critique the work based on whether or not the artist was successful in achieving that objective.
Bad reviews can be helpful to an artist if the comments are constructive and objective and not just the personal opinion of the reviewer or purely subjective. It comes down that ageless discussion of whether quality is inherent in the object or whether it's just whatever tickles your fancy at the time. I believe it is a meeting of both "subject and object" or "reviewer and artist".

Now the bigger question is whether or not the music is getting out. Much of that is really a focus on the success or failure of our labels efforts. As global as the "prog" world is… it is again very small. Yes, ELP and Jethro Tull all were once big arena mass attractions, at the top of their genre, but even our biggest newer bands out now are nearly unknown by the masses without major label support. So I guess we are "all" trying to get the word out... and that includes you as well doing your part to recognize the genre and help bring new and fresh minds to it with your site, show and promotion. It all must work together, all of us... artists, media, record companies, distributors booking agents and listeners.
When we released “Heavens Café” and Mantra Sunrise there were only say... 3 or 4 underground radio stations globally that would even play new prog stuff... now maybe 50 or so. Many more mags and webzines than ever now... but to the average music listener, we are all still unknown. So I would like to think we are getting more interest than ever and this might be very true. I think the whole genre needs a big lift, and maybe we can float on the back of a new phoenix rising! I don't have any interest in major label activities, it's never a money thing for me, just art in it's purest form. I like it that way. If majors come knocking, I would talk to them... I won't be holding my breath for too long however...

Was this new album recorded differently compared to your previous albums?
In many ways each album has been recorded completely differently... and the objective of the sonic direction has varied as well. With Mantra Sunrise we had limited resources, so we really had to play well, and we had no idea what was going to happen when we tried to tape things different ways. It just came out the way it did. “Heavens Café Live” just captured the band on the fly in a live situation in a theater, no overdubs or anything... very honest in the purest sense. “A Passage to Clear” was more simple in that I was not looking to create a big magnum opus, just a pull back really from “Heavens Café Live” which was a huge undertaking... putting a rock opera on stage with say 30 people involved in that process. With Tell a Vision I wanted to attempt another epic type project which it very much became. A double disc CD, which was originally intended for a two record vinyl release which just fell apart, because we could not find a company that felt competent to press it correctly. Most vinyl these days is limited to 15 minutes and mostly techno remixes and such. The companies we talked to... would not guarantee us masters over 20 minutes, which each side would have been. They would attempt to press them, but if they failed, we would be charged $500 per side, regardless of the outcome. So, we did what we could to preserve a very analog recording onto CD. I have a huge vinyl collection myself, and really that is about all I listen to at home. So I am quite sure that the feel and sound of vinyl is influencing me, as an engineer, and producer, no doubt. I personally think records sound much better than CDs... and I don't believe for a second that crystal clear digital production is always the answer... I think that if production is more blended you have to put your ear on it more to hear what is really going on, and in that way, it draws you into the music more...it really does. Take an earlier album by Pink Floyd say “Meddle”... the drums are not technically recorded very well, but they are there, and whole album has a mysterious sound to it, and that is very seductive and interesting. I think that would all be lost, if it were done in today’s digital "Pro Tools" world. The whole obsession with perfect clarity is like saying that photographs are better than paintings... and that makes no sense to me at all. I like both. I suppose a bit of balance is in order. Too much compression sounds very bad to me.

Do you think the group has progressed over the years, and in retrospect, which albums do you see as the most successful album?
This group has certainly progressed and will continue to do so I believe. Judging success as sales... “Heavens Café Live” has been the best so far... but “Tell a Vision” is off to a wonderful start. “Heavens Café Live” has been selling for 7 years and “Tell a Vision” 7 weeks! Defining success is a big question, but artistically I think “Tell a Vision” feels the most successful, because five years ago, I don't think I had the capacity to pull something like this off. There is an unbelievable attention to detail in there, that can just go and go and go... if you really listen to it... say, in a pair of decent headphones. It is a much more mature and sophisticated recording than the others, and an interesting point for us as a band. I really am not sure where to go from here, but I think we will be making a fair departure from our current sound after we play this one out live for a while.

What other projects are you currently involved in?
Milo and I are doing a record and we are maybe half way done with that. Nolan is finishing his solo album so I have some involvement there, and Jim Martino who played some bass on “Tell a Vision”, is doing a record and I will be helping him in a few ways there as well... I did all the guitars on the K2 project with Ken Jaquess, other that the obvious solos by Allan Holdsworth... so that one is now out too. I have stuff for a DVD from the LA shows of “Heavens Café” that could be interesting. I have been working on some new guitar approaches and starting to record ideas there and I still want to do an all instrumental album of acoustic guitar pieces in a live setting. I think we would like to put a road show together for “Tell a Vision” and go play in Europe as it has been quite a while since I have been over there. Hmm... when I start writing it all down it is a bit alarming!

Thanks for taking the time out to perform this interview. Hope I get a chance to talk to you again in the future. John, do you have any final messages for the readers?
We'll, it's certainly nice that we all have the freedom to listen to what we want, and participate in the overall climate of the music industry regardless of how underground we all are as artists, media or listeners. These are the places where often the most innovative and cutting edge things happen.
It's a very fine place to be...
 

http://tributarymusic.com

Nucleus interview: 12/07/05